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...I try to avoid entering the US as much as possible.
Welcome to the New World, ladies and gentlemen. Can there be any doubt as to what the U.S. has become after reading an article like this?
That the woman be prohibited from re-entering the US is one thing.
That she be treated the way she was is another.
She broke the law, fine, send her home, but treating her like dirt is not necessary. Putting her in chains is not necessary. Putting her in jail is not necessary.
To equate overstaying her visa with some violent crime where the offender is a danger to others is black and white thinking: everyone who breaks the law is the same.
The officials involved, and you if you support them, have lost all sense of proportion. Did her crime really call for the humiliation she endured? Is the US better protected and do you feel more secure because the officials threw their weight around?
You seem to have a serious problem of being unable to judge consequences. You probably also think that the illegal kidnapping (extraordinary rendition) and torture of anyone the government decides is also OK, even though it is condemned by international law. Perhaps you think the US is too good to have to respect international law?
Janusinsocal wrote: "She overstayed her visa by three weeks and expected to come back to the US without hindrance. As far as I can see, she got what she deserved."
Aside from the absolutely jaw-dropping hubris of such a remark, let me remind you that the rule of law generally means that the "punishment" fits the crime.
I suppose you also advocate the Islamic laws which include stoning women for adultery and cutting off the hands of someone who steals a loaf of bread to keep from starving.
I imagine you were behind those militarized police who were shooting Katrina victims who were taking food from flooded stores... food that would be spoiled and trashed anyway...
People like you certainly do deserve what you will get.
And when it is you that offends, as you have and will, I rather suspect that your tune will change dramatically.
...Sept 11 has clearly demonstrated that intelligent, Icelandic blonde women are fanatic observers of a religion known to exhort violence against Americans and Europeans.
Those ladies scare the hell out of me with all their recreational reading and shopping sprees. I'm surprised anyone is surprised here.
Yes, exactly - couldn't have said it better than Corajudd if the hallucination of 'american freedom' depended on it.
The U.S. will not have to put up with any "foreign law breakers" because all the foreigners will stay home and keep their money at home.
And, since all the jobs in the U.S. are being outsourced to China and India, people like you can just sit there and rot and no one will care when you start begging for bread because you certainly didn't offer any to a stranger.
it happened to you for exceeding the speed limit?
Do you not recognize there is a difference between overstaying a visa, or speeding, and planning and carrying out a violent crime?
I think the point you are missing is that the punishment massively outweighed the crime. Jesus christ, the woman was on holiday and for some reason overstayed her visit! What is wrong with simply informing her of this and sending her home? Are you really suggesting that being shackled in irons and thrown into jail is a reasonable punishment for staying a little too long in the "greatest democracy on earth"?? You should think seriously about supporting such draconian measures by US law enforcement, because if you and others like you do so, one of these days the same treatment is going to be meted out to you for a damn parking offence! GET IT??
Janusinsocal wrote: "Also, it's a well-known fact that pregnant mothers from other countries very often come to the US to give birth because our health care system provides free delivery in better conditions than they would find in their own country."
Hate to tell you this bud but the U.S. healthcare system is among the worst in the world and the infant mortality rate is shocking.
Have a look here: []
and here: []
where you will read:
"According to recent stats from the World Health Organization, the U.S. ranks 33rd in infant mortality and 38th in life expectancy, behind such economic powerhouses as the Czech Republic."
As for the rest of your ignorant nonsense, I begin to smell a Troll.
Janusinsocal:
> Dwell in your paranoia, angst, and distrust. For you it will
> always b personally, I'd rather live in
> the best of all possible worlds and believe it or not, I wish
> the same for you.
Trouble is, the best of times isn't decided by personal fiat. It is a question of looking at the data. The data shows that the US is reacting over and over again "out of proportion" to perceived offences. Such an attitude is the mark of a country that is going through a period of hysteria. It has happened elsewhere (think Germany in the 20s and 30s) and can be studied critically.
When multiple police cars are sent out because some kids are skateboarding on private property, or people are tasered on the front lawns for having a smoke, or a man who looks figgity is surrounded by the SWAT team, society has lost any sense of perspective. But the point of these manoeuvres is to inflict a state of fear on the population. The message is: "You could be next".
If you want to live in an illusion, that is your choice. Just don't come weeping to us when your illusory world is shattered.
"I hope to receive some explanation why I was treated this way."
Because they can.
It's time for a moratorium on the U.S. - don't buy their products, don't go there for vacation and spend your money there... let them rot in their delusional superiority.
Janusinsocal is a Troll... time to ban him/her/it.
Janusinsocal is a Troll... time to ban him/her/it.
Cop1152, America might not be the pariah that it is today.
Janusinsocal - you might want to read this article to get yourself up to speed a bit.
Judging from your comments, you're living in a dream world - an America and justice system that no longer exists.
It would also do you well to read Political Ponerology by Andrew Lobaczewski so you understand why and how it's happening.
Pretending Cheney has our best interests at heart and has 'prevented terrorist attacks' doesn't make it so - but it sure makes Fox News happy you think that.
"This is the greatest country in the world."
Why? Nazis believed the same thing about Germany. A lot of good it did them!
"I don't believe this lady's story"
Okay. But no one cares about what you believe. No one cares about what I believe. Believe it or not, there ARE people in this world who care about what is actually happening, rather than what they would like to believe is happening.
I do agree with you though that bad things happen sometimes. For example, you called everyone here loony, so now you can't post comments anymore! :)
I can't help thinking that the comments by Janusinsocal and a few others are probably very similar to comments made by Germans in the 1930s when the Nazis were beginning their ostracizing of "others". It's pretty sad, but much more depressing will be listening to people like Janusinsocal whine about "not seeing it coming" after the de facto establishment of a fascist government in the US. You think it only happens to other people? Wake up!
It is these "true Patriots" that never see it coming.
They say that all you have to do is "follow the rules" and you'll be okay.
What they are incapable of seeing is that in a fascist state, like we have here in the U.S., the rules change whenever those in control deem it necessary to change them.
Like from minute to minute.
And it is those who are so sure that they are "in the know" of their government and are such goody two-shoes that don't have a clue what is coming and get blindsided when they, all of a sudden, realize that the good old democratic U.S. of A. is not so democratic after all.
That you can be thrown in prison just because someone else doesn't like the way you look or act, or the way you look at them.
And the police have become unfeeling, unthinking robots.
As have, as we have all seen, a lot of people living here in Hitler-land.
You all don't have a clue what is coming.
I'm looking forward to the realization hitting you between the eyes when it finally dawns on you just how little you understand about the fascist USA and you are locked up, tortured and forgotten, just like what is being done now to people who are innocent of any crimes or wrong-doing other than what has been made up by psychopathic agents.
There is evidence for this also that is presented in a couple of articles I wrote some time back.
For example, there is this one
which includes excerpts from Sebastian Haffner's book "Defying Hitler".
It is well worth reading to gain a deeper understanding of people like Janusinsocal.
Another article onsite that deals with the "authoritarian" personality is this one: []
Here the focus is on the "authoritarian" personality.
Psychologist Andzrej Lobaczewski describes the type that really "believes" in "authority" as the schizoidal psychopath.
He writes:
"We frequently find expressions of their characteristic attitudes in their statements and writings: “Human nature is so bad that order in human society can only be maintained by a strong power created by highly qualified individuals in the name of some higher idea.” Let us call this typical expression the “schizoid declaration”." [...]
"Carriers of this anomaly are hypersensitive and distrustful, but they pay little attention to the feelings of others, tend to assume extreme positions, and are eager to retaliate for minor offenses. Sometimes they are eccentric and odd. Their poor sense of psychological situation and reality leads them to superimpose erroneous, pejorative interpretations upon other people’s intentions. They easy become involved in activities which are ostensibly moral, but which actually inflict damage upon themselves and others. Their impoverished psychological worldview makes them typically pessimistic regarding human nature." [...]
The common factor in the varieties of this anomaly is a dull pallor of emotions and a feeling for the psychological realities of this essential factor in basic intelligence. This can be attributed to the incomplete quality of the instinctive substratum, which is working as though on sand. Low emotional pressure enables them to develop proper speculative reasoning, which is useful in non-humanistic spheres of activity. Because of their one-sidedness, they tend to consider themselves intellectually superior to “ordinary” people.
I think that's a pretty good fit here.
For Jenus (and the other like-minded): What your "goverment" wants is GLOBAL CONTROL. And before that they must have total control of YOU, the citizens of USA.
You are being mind-controlled little by little into buying this terror senario among many other "televised" distractions. You are the kind of person that feeds the statistics of the "happy citizens", which in return further enhance your illusion of freedom. You have the choice to live in your reality bubble for a while. But the truth will hit you hard in the face soon enough. A new "law" will be voted some of these late nights by a "majority" of 10-20 persons in a dark room, that will include you too in the List. Rest assured. But then, i guess prison cells are nice places to get yourself together and think things over. I mean after the interrogation is over of course... Best wishes.
"According to news yesterday in Iceland, the Foreign Ministry received a letter from the DHS, signed by the Deputy Secretary Paul A. Schneider, where they regret the treatment Erla got, admit it was out of proportion, and that they will review processes in the light of this incident."
That is the point.
The treatment this woman received was "OUT OF PROPORTION" to the situation.
There are many other situations in the U.S. where authorities are acting all out of proportion to the situation.
It is as though people in the U.S. have completely lost their common sense and have descended into some kind of nightmarish black and white world of extremes and hysteria.
This hysteria is a consequence of 1) pathological material being assimilated by society by way of the mainstream media all through their formative years 2) transmarginal inhibition []
- in other words, planned and deliberate.
It is intended to convert people who would otherwise be normal and have correct reasoning to
the "authoritarian" world view of fascism.
And, as we can see from some of the comments above, it is working.
I am glad to see some healthy reactions. But Bush is just a high ranking puppet in the game. Period. Another Skull and Bones "classmate" will replace him. Do you really think that the Powers To Be behind him, who have spent so much time (decades) and resources ($Trillions) to get the situation up to here will just say: "Oh, we lost the damn elections... We give up. Cancel everything..."?
I don't believe so! Instead, you are just a minor staged event away from the Constitution becoming old news. Have you been following the hair raising legislations that were approved this summer in the US? 13 months is an awful lot of time... I fear it will take more than a vote to get rid of this manipulation. IF they allow "elections" to happen, it is only because the result is rigged. Too much is at stake for the "average Jo" to have control over who runs USA...
It would be illegal.
The idea that voting will undo the mess we (the US) finds itself in is to ignore the obvious, that voting is what got you into this mess.
It was not those who did not vote, but rather those who did that elected generation, after generation into maintaining and expanding the only role government serves: theft.
Voting supplies exactly what those who run the government need, the pretext that their armed robbery is supported by the majority.
What you do not like your labor being looted?
Well you voted did not you?
Well then, if you do not like the results you are a sore loser.
Or perhaps your politicians won.
Congratulations, how are you liking the results?
Lastly, this assumes the votes are actually counted.
This is delusional when there is ample evidence to suggest they are not. What your masters want is for you to show up at the polls.
The last thing they want is the unpredictability of actual vote counts.
Support Ron Paul's ideas.
They are gathering the remnant.
As for the election...well, enjoy the show.
The R3VOLution starts between your ears, where it ends up after that is truly up to you but it won't be at the ballot box.
As we have repeated, what we are upset about is the reaction that was so out of proportion to her 'crime. According to the law, yes, the US was 'completely justified' in deporting her. Was it also justifiable to put her in chains, to humiliate her, to keep her in jail, to prevent her from calling family or the Icelandic Embassy?
Look at what is really happening in the US before saying we are unhinged. It is the US that has become completely unhinged. "Inbred and despotic rulers"? Doesn't that refer now to the small elite in the US that is in power?
As to your remark about what occurred in Europe, maybe you should try and understand the hysteroidal cycle and how those events are now being played out in the US.
Behind your reasoned tone lies the same blinkered view of reality of the Americans that continue to believe their is a 'terrorist' threat to the US that comes from a few Islamic terrorists. The real threat of terror comes from the US government itself.
I am a Canadian who works in the US.
Almost without exception, every person in INS/Homeland Security that I have dealt with has been robotic and totally without any semblance of human empathy.
Like “Canadian observer” I
am familiar with the UK, Canada and the United States.
Americans are the worst in this regard hands down.
You will certainly get Canadian/British officials who act like little Hitlers.
What you won't get is anyone who will defend them.
“Observer” is glad that the Icelandic master criminal is being “held to account” - for a trivial offense like this?
I wonder how he feels about scofflaws who jaywalked during the Eisenhower administration?
Why is the US like this?
Personally, I think it is the effect of 200 years of multiculturalism (starting with slavery...compulsory multiculturalism).
Europe, including Britain, and Canada are headed in the same direction.
Recent research indicates that diverse populations are less cohesive and people display less trust and empathy towards one another.
Fundamentally, I think that most of the things that liberals hate about the United States are the result, not of capitalism or democracy, but of multiculturalism.
The irony, of course, is that multiculturalism as a meme is one of those things that goes totally unquestioned by liberals.
Europe: This is your future!
The treatment of this Icelandic visitor to the US is shameful and the fact that anyone (like Janusinsocal) would choose to defend it is infuriating.
We all know people who cannot take the slightest criticism, and sadly, there are some Americans who cannot take any criticism of their country either.
I'm sure there are such "patriots" in other countries too.
However, I don't believe this insanity is deliberate on the part of the Bush administration.
They have been hugely incompetent, no doubt, but I see this episode as being more symptomatic of a) the effect of bureaucracy on the people who get caught up in enforcing its rules and regulations (Kafka knew all about this) and b) the peculiarly American approach to crime and punishment, which seems to be completely devoid of common sense.
Bush is no better nor worse that other Presidents in this regard (remember Waco and the Elian Gonzales machine-gun toting episodes of the Clinton years).
A systemic problem has merely been exacerbated by the Bush administration's tightening of security after 9/11.
What is especially maddening about this stupidity is that these morons were wasting time harassing a law-abiding visitor (barring a minor paperwork problem) a friend of the United States, who wanted to visit New York and no doubt spend her money boosting its economy, while millions of illegal aliens stream across the border from Mexico and Hillary Clinton wants to give them driver's licenses and a free education.
I don't think it is multiculturalism.
Please read my article here []
that discusses this subject from a particular perspective.
The problem, always and ever, is pathological deviants.
The Bush administration is neither! The powers that control them have a definιte plan, which they carry out with cold precision. Having a frontman with bellow average intelligence (Bush) serves as the perfect smoke screen!. "Let them put the blame on the stupid guy". Don't buy that.
Presidents are expendable. Laws and belief systems
are longer lasting. Fear and division is their game. Why would anyone blow himself up or try to cross US borders if he had a job, a house, a wife, kids, happiness, peace and dignity in his own country? WHY? Only because he envys your "freedom" in USA? Put your thinking caps on for a while...
Joseph Goebbels, minister of propaganda in Nazi Germany once said:
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the state can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie ... The truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the state."
So the unfolding consequences of all their lies will eventually wake up a LOT of people. I hope by then there are still some things left to save.
The point about her race is not that what happens to other people who are arabs or muslims is forgotten, but that this woman's experience points to one of the gradual shifts in a fascist government.
Most people think that this kind of event will never happen to them.
No one is saying that because she was white that what happened to her is worse than what happens to a person of Arabic origin.
If that has been said, please point it out.
But, their is a tipping point.
What is stopping the authorities from doing the same thing to an American citizen?
Nothing but the will to do it.
For some reason, you are giving the benefit of the doubt to the US government.
Why you would do that, I am not sure.
They do not deserve it nor do they need it.
Comparing what this woman went through to "brusque border officials" is ludicrous, and you are also being unfavorable to the traveler, taking a leap of faith that she was belliegerent or untruthful.
The fact of the matter is that whatever she did, she certainly did not deserve to be put through the experience that she was.
I cannot fathom why someone would want to be apologetic towards the authorities in this respect, as though they had no other choice.
They certainly had many options, but they chose the most dehumanizing and humiliating one they could.
Please don't try to cast blame on anyone else.
We have ceded our Freedom(s), because our leaders want us to be afraid, now, we are no longer the "land of the free" OR "the home of the brave" We are no longer willing to "Water the TREE of FREEDOM with the blood of Patriots ". Here, ALL, talk of "The Declaration of Independence's' and go to great lengths to pay lip service to it, but those who lead, fight to see that it has NO FORCE IN LAW, for all of the last 215 years. Imagine if the native americans had had a visa overstay policy.
And lastly... By the great God Capitalism... She came to spend her MONEY, here, and then go back home!!!
Eva ?sk Arnardóttir, please accept my apology on behalf of those of us who can no longer enter an airport here to just watch the planes come and go, a freedom I loved as a child, who's politics are such that we are already on a "NO FLY" list ourselves.
MadMichaelJohn
Jeez, it must be awful hard work on your minister for tourism these past few years trying to entice potential visitors into the country. If i were a country in rapid
economic decline, i'd be doing my utmost best to keep the foreign currency coming in, and the guests happy! She could have injected tens of thousands of foreign dollars into a fabled economy. At the moment America, you need all the tourist dollars you can get!
For every 'one' tourist that comes into your country, there's the potential for a further 20 referrals once the visitor returns home with fantastic stories of how great your country is. But that lady will now tell everyone she knows back home to never ever go to America, and inform them of the grossly unfair and outright rude treatment she received as a guest within the country. Congratulations America! You succeeded in eroding your tourism dollars a little bit more...
That story has made every single foreign reader think twice before booking their next holiday to the Land Of The *Cough* Free.
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